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You raise great points. Regarding your point about education, that is really a state function and not an NAR function. You’d be shocked at how much variance there is from state to state in licensing standards. Sadly, none of them are really leading the way. In the spirit of full disclosure, I do have my VPA verification. I do feel that this program is offering the consumer what they are looking for, which is a third party verification of an agent’s professionalism. As you clearly state, a consumer can’t simply rely on licensing as the standard. However, a VPA verification can give them the assurance that the agent they are considering to hire has met the criteria that the public finds most important, and that this criteria has been verified by a third party. I hope that as you said, “Is VPA going to be the seal all agents are measured by in 5 years?” It’s a start to raising the bar and providing the consumer with what they deserve – a professional!
Hey Chris,
Thanks for jumping in and sounding off.
One question I didn’t fully address in the post, is whether or not these types of verifications or justifications of professionalism is the way we should go?
Does it raise more questions to be asked than are answered?
Strictly from a consumer perspective, it’s shocking to me that EVERY real estate agent isn’t held to the ‘ethics’ requirements as a REALTOR.
It makes me wonder what other standards aren’t being upheld across such a large industry.
Chase,
I think it does raise more questions than answers and that is exactly the point. We need to educate the consumers on what makes some more qualified than others in this field. With such a low barrier to entry and so much at stake for our clients, anything to start the discussion on professionalism is entirely worth it IMO.
Jeff,
So with revenues on the line many brokers and NAR itself folds under the weight of a low bar of entry into this business. Thus tarnishing an entire profession in the eyes of consumers.
Well, if VPA isn’t the catalyst that ends up shaking things up, I sure hope something else comes along and does it. But, if it does we’ll all be much better off for it.
Chase,
I am very impressed with the caliber of your video – great work! And you raise some excellent questions, for sure.
To answer your last question above, there are many reasons why things are the way they are in real estate today. I would invite you to check out a comment I wrote this morning in response to essentially the same question you have posed, which you can read at http://www.inman.com/opinion/guest-perspective/2011/12/8/the-quest-quality-in-real-estate-services.
The much shorter answer: each state has its own unique licensing requirements, and there is no real consistency among the states. As an extreme example of this, in Florida, you can actually be a criminal and obtain a real estate license! Check this out this post which was written just nine days ago: http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/personalfinance/criminal-record-not-often-an-impediment-to-getting-a-florida-real-estate/1204596.
This inconsistency makes an INTERNALLY GENERATED, “one size fits all” solution extremely hard to come by for such a sprawling industry with so many differing interests and views on how to effect an increase in professionalism (and MANY would argue vociferously that there is no need for a raising of the bar at all!).
VerifiedAgent.com was born of a strongly perceived need to offer consumers a way to know that they are working with a real professional, and for true real estate professionals to provide proof that they have exactly those qualities studies show consumers most want when choosing an agent: honesty, trustworthiness and a great reputation (see National Association of REALTORS® Profile of Home Buyers and Sellers Exhibit 4-15, which spells this out clearly in terms of why people choose agents).
Did we go far enough? Did we choose the “right” parameters? We admit that this part of the process was and is HIGHLY subjective. However, we did a lot of research on this, performed a survey and – probably most importantly – obtained counsel from some of the smartest and most experienced people in real estate, just to confirm that we were on the right track. Based on the consistency of the responses we received, we think we did a fairly good job of creating a “total filter” that would likely prevent a lower quality agent from ever becoming a VPA™.
Having said that, no system is perfect, but we think we got it reasonably right. That we eliminate the part-time agent (as some studies show that as many as 73% of all agents earn the majority of their income from sources other than real estate, this is a large filter in and of itself), that we do require a certain level of experience that most feel would create a solid level of competency, that we address the peer review element and that we confirm the good standing of the license at the state level – and that we do all of that independently – adds up to a level of assurance that we don’t think exists anywhere else in our industry.
Thanks again for covering us in your post, Chase. We appreciate it!
Best,
Michael McClure, CEO
VerifiedAgent.com
I was just verified by Verified Professional Agent this past Thursday. The process took 3 weeks and was very intense. The difference between this and review sites is that VPA talks to your clients themselves. There is no way to manipulate the data. They also talk to other agents you have worked with. If anyone is going to call you out for being unprofessional, it will be a peer. But, the main reason that I pursued this was because they require FULL TIME practice, and they verify that by checking transaction volume. I cannot just claim to be full time, VPA checks to make sure that I’ve closed enough transactions to actually be full time.
As a marketing tool, I can show potential clients that I don’t just do this on the weekends for some extra cash, but I am fully devoted to their transaction and I have the necessary experience to truly represent them. This isn’t just a claim, it has been VERIFIED.
Obviously education requirements for real estate professionals need to be increased dramatically, but until that happens, and if it never happens, VPA will be a way to demonstrate superior professionalism and experience.
Hi Jeff,
Great points for why the VPA system is a great band-aid for the head trauma that is some states requirements.
I actually have no issues with the VPA system in general. In fact, I think it’s the best we have for now, like you said.
I’m really just concerned with the lack of movement towards higher standards industry wide.
Hi Chase,
I resonate with your concern. The fundamental problem with the raise the bar movement is that it is directly opposed by a systemic problem. It is in the best interest of NAR and local associations to keep the membership levels up and any increase in requirements of education naturally thin the ranks. That is why there is no mass movement toward increasing standards in my opinion.
Jeff,
So are you saying it is strictly a money play?
Keep the numbers up for the sake of dues?
Chase,
That is the only way I can see how an industry would accept being ranked so low for so many years in the consumers eyes. To expand on my point, Brokers don’t want the ranks thinned either. To take away revenue from non-preforming agents would bankrupt a lot of offices.
If the NAR wanted to raise the bar, they have plenty of political capital to get the states to change the rules. Better yet, NAR could implement stricter standards than the state for its members which would raise the Realtor brand in the eyes of the public. Just some of my concerns…
As a business woman and a 7 year vet as a realtor it is surprising to me that we require little more than a cosmetologist (I have nothing against that trade by the way) to receive a real estate license. We’re responsible for many aspects attorneys are in a real estate transaction and guidance for the financial health of the single biggest investment the average individual will make in their lives.
While I don’t believe an entire industry can be overhauled with a stroke of a brush, I do believe Verified Agent gives a true professional a way of setting themselves apart from the sea of mediocrity. It also gives our clients piece of mind they have selected a seasoned agent with experience, the ability to work with others and to successfully close transactions on behalf of their clients.
Hi Kelly,
As an avid listener to your RAW Nights, it is an honor to have to stop by.
I agree 100% with your assessment. I have nothing against the cosmetology profession either, but no matter how bad a haircut might be, it could never compare with an inept real estate agent getting you into a terrible home.
I will disagree slightly with your comment about being overhauled with one brush stroke. I’m a mortgage banker, and as I’m sure you know, the licensing rules were just put into place not too long ago.
I saw many a mortgage professional exit the business, and more because they couldn’t pass the test than you’d think. Granted there are still issues with the system, and certainly still inept mortgage professionals. However, that one brush stroke took a huge portion of my peers out of the business.
Disclosure: I am good friends with Michael McClure -Founder of Verified Agent. Michael has been leading the helm on the ‘Raise The Bar’ issue in our industry for some time precisely because of the radical disparity of professionalism deal to deal; Agent to Agent. I personally have been disenfranchised many times for the same reasons. However ~ our industry is important and necessary. From an Agent point of view, I often wished there was a way I could establish the difference between MY level of professionalism. Verified Agent will be much like the Better Business Bureau stamp. Without being verified, Agents will still enjoy success of course, however those who go through the lengthy, detailed verification process will absolutely stand a little taller, attract a certain level of business and wear their badge with honor. Becoming Verified IS Raising the Bar. It may not be the entire answer on improving our industry, but its a measurable step forward.
Hi Teri,
Thank you so much for commenting. I would say though that I’d hold off on the “VPA is like the BBB stamp.” Many consumers know the BBB is worthless. They have no authority to make a business do anything. And honestly how often have you patronized a business merely because of the BBB stamp.
I think the VPA badge is better than the BBB.
Love your punchy retorts
Appreciate your point about the value of the BBB stamp. I think we’ll all agree that its about the ‘vision’ and the actual attempt at setting the bar that’s worth pursuing.
LOL!
Teri, can you talk to my wife about enjoying those punchy retorts? She never seems quite as amused.
Really though, you’re a true professional in this industry, as is everyone who has commented thus far. I feel like we’re preaching to the choir a bit.
I think this industry deserves more honor, more professionalism and more trust from the public. We just need to start steering the ship in that direction.
Could NOT agree more! Like what you’re doing here – I’ll be watching!
)
(I’m sure your wife and I would get along well
Chase,
One more thing regarding the history of the industry: check out this archive of “raise the bar” blog posts: http://p1fran.com/rtb-directory/.
If you are interested in a lot of thinking within RE.Net on the topic of professionalism in real estate, this is a nice resource.
Enjoy!
Best,
Michael McClure
Hey Michael,
I have gone through and read or listened to all the articles and shows about professional… ok, that’s a lie, that list is amazingly extensive.
I am, however, working my way through it. There is some amazingly insightful content there.
I will say, like I’ve alluded to before, its interesting to me that the industry keeps seeking ways to “raise the bar.” And in no uncertain terms “Prove itself.”
Where does this desire come from?
Chase,
Speaking with complete candor, I think the desire for change comes from just living in the industry and knowing what it’s REALLY like at street level. Just Google “real estate Harris Poll” or “real estate Gallup poll” and read the results. Or read this post I wrote: http://p1fran.com/2010/01/the-people-have-spoken/.
The bottom line: the industry needs to get better because people are not happy with our collective level of performance. And for the men and women who are truly driven to provide exceptional client service, we KNOW that improvement is needed, because we deal with this “stuff” every single day.
Further, I had three train-wreck experiences with agents before I got into real estate. Those experiences were instrumental in my getting into the industry in the first place, because I saw a real opportunity to compete and win against people of the caliber that I dealt with as a consumer.
Best,
Michael
Hi Chase,
I’m on the VPA Board of Advisers so I’m not going to address VPA directly as you can guess my opinion of its value. What I did want to comment on was the idea of more education before licensing as a solution. While I do agree that more education would weed out many who currently would be eligible for a license, I think the content of the education needs to be addressed as well. Until there are courses that go beyond Real Estate Law, Real Estate Principles, etc and really address business practices, marketing, leadership, and customer relationship management on a college level, there will always be those that create the perception of low quality. While I do believe that NAR is set up to function best with a larger constituent base(and that is a roadblock), I don’t believe most brokerages would suffer with fewer agents. The number of transactions will not change if there are fewer agents, only the distribution of those transactions, and the brokers who realize this already have more profitable, higher quality organizations.
Hi Mark,
I hear anecdotal discussion all the time that brokerages are on life support and if they were to loose desk fees from non-productive agents they would go under. I am not against thinning the ranks, in fact I wholeheartedly support it, however I do believe there are headwinds from brokerages in raising the educational requirements. Your thoughts?
Hi Jeff,
I certainly believe, as you, that brokerages put up many of the roadblocks but with the folks I work with, none charge a desk fee so having a non-producer around doesn’t bring in anything. They still cling to the notion that “maybe” they will become productive or if they “bump into” a deal, at least they will be with me. Those companies that charge monthly fees, of course, have even less incentive to focus on productivity and professionalism.
Hi Mark,
I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of the what core courses need to be, and what their content needs to include.
As you say, “there will always be those that create the perception of low quality,” but really perception is reality, and we need to change the perception of the industry if we are to change its reality.
What are your thoughts on instituting nationwide courses and exams similar to what happened within the mortgage industry? Or do you think individual brokerages need to start bucking the system, and take the bull by the horns?
Hey Chase,
I know I might partially be to blame for getting you thinking about this after our conversation on TheHipRoof Blogtalkradio show.
I think Verified Agent (VPA) is great. I think the whole RTB movement (which I too was one of the original folks involved in the conversation, as well as on the RTB podcast with Mike McClure and Todd Waller in the early part of the show, I obviously have been through this conversation in it’s many iterations, and although absent in general from a lot of the social media scene, consumer relations/advocacy/service are all integral parts of my business.
I can’t wait to get myself going on VPA and I also support MountainofAgents.com. I think the verification that VPA is doing is essential, yes it kinda made me go “Gulp” in concept because people might tell us how happy they are, but in real estate if something breaks post closing it sometimes will be blamed on the agent.
It is far too easy to get a real estate license. Anywhere in this country. In Delaware you need 99 course houses in Real Estate Law, Practice and Math to get to test for your license, then you have 3 chances to pass the exam and if you do not you must retake the course. After 5 years, a set amount in sales, and a number of other factors, you can take the Brokers course (another 99 course hours) to qualify to sit for the Brokers exam. On top of this all is continuing education. Compare that to the cosmotologist who needs 2000 course hours and an apprenticeship and we have a rather odd disconnect. My hair is awesomely important to me, but help in making the largest purchase of my life is even more important, hair grows, undoing a house purchase isn’t quite as easy as getting over a slipped scissor snip.
I think there should be a unified national standard for qualifications, then perhaps a state requirements as well. I also think a few years of apprenticeship would be great. I talk about my ideas in other places, but essentially, require more give those licensed a 2-3 year grace period to meet the requirements, and all new agents would meet those requirements and then move forward for the apprenticeship. This might cause some attrition but as Mr. Jeffers points out it would not change the amount of business, it would just shift the volume. I think in turn I would certainly be willing to increase the amount I pay in my NAR dues to compensate for this. It would likely be worth the amount of time I spend trying to build trust with consumers who just think we are all out for a “commission check”.
That brings me to my other problem with our industry. The compensation model is really broken. Commissions are lovely, but if you really want the highest of ethical behavior and the best representation possible I still contend that there needs to be a base salary model plus commission bonus, or a shift to w2. I don’t believe I am a sales person as much as I am a real estate consultant or advocate. The negative concept of the pushy sales person is what the industry can’t seem to shake, no matter what.
The only way to change that is to dramatically change the industry. I also think that there is a movement happening, more consumer oriented, and we all need to recognize that shift in the marketplace, and the world. We are moving to a world of “word of mouth” and “trust”, and for that the consumers are going to have even more power. Look at the “shop local” movement happening now.
Consumers do need the help of a real estate professional in the process, they claim they don’t like us taking commissions but then don’t want to pay up front. I think that is what needs to happen though, whether it is a retainer fee and then the remainder in a commission, or whatever format. When I commit to a client, I don’t show any other people the same homes I am showing them, but that never stops a consumer from calling other agents.
I think it all comes down to education… Consumers don’t understand what we do, they don’t know what is involved, it is supposed to be transparent to them, so therefore the perception is that we just show them a house and eventually get a check. It’s time to educate EVERYONE, consumers and real estate professionals.
Just my few cents worth…
Maya
Maya,
Thank you for that comment, and yes, you WERE one of the true pioneers of the #RTB movement.
We greatly appreciate all the effort you have put in on that and the investment you continue to make in this important drive to increase professionalism in real estate.
Best,
Michael McClure
Hey Maya,
So… the word count of my entire post was 512, and your comment was 758… I’d like to start with a hat tip.
Moving on. Our conversation certainly sparked my interest in pursuing an idea I’d been thinking about for some time. Which turned into this show and post.
I haven’t been involved in the RTB conversation since the beginning. I haven’t been in real estate even half the time some of the commenters here have been. In fact, I’m sure some here might have been involved in real estate longer than I’ve been born. I haven’t won any production awards. I haven’t shared the stage with incredible “thought leaders” like some many here have done.
But without all those credentials, it took me no less 4 months of looking into this to realize there was a problem.
Some of the posts Michael linked to in an earlier comment go back as far as 2005. 2005!?! Really that’s how long this discussion has been going on?
As a young professional in this industry I’m getting increasingly interested in this topic every single day. I love some of your ideas that you’ve mentioned here, and that we’ve discussed.
My question is when does anything actually change? I see some amazing minds of our industry talking about it, but after 7 years, when can we actually expect to see change?
You’re supposed to “be the change” you want to see in the world, but instead of starting brokerages that require a new set of higher standards, all I’ve seen is current and ex-agents create products for other agents to buy. All based around differentiating yourself from the pack.
Granted there are a few brokerages out there doing big things, and really raising the bar on professionalism, but they seem few and far between.
Chase,
To answer your question about “why this is taking so long.” I would argue that it’s way too early to make that judgment. We’re talking about turning around an industry that has been entrenched in “the same old ways” for many, many decades. And MANY people have a vested, financially driven interest in maintaining the status quo. So, there is real resistance to change.
It’s a veritable supertanker. Change takes time, persistence and dedication. For a tiny look inside how the momentum for change is increasing as we speak, check out the Facebook group that I started called “Raise the Bar in Real Estate.” I would argue that a group like that would not have survived even two years ago. Right now, it’s (I think) about seven weeks old, and we are approaching 500 members, and the group is super dynamic. I am speaking at a conference in San Diego on Thursday in large part because of this group and the buzz it is creating.
So, change is afoot. It’s just a long climb up a steep hill. But trust me, momentum is building…
Best,
Michael
Michael,
That is great to hear. And the supertanker analogy is one I’ve been making for sometime.
That industry will be better for the changes to come, I can’t wait to see how it all shakes down.
What standards do think need to be in place for the industry to make an amazing rebound?
I would like to point out that having a degree, thousands of hours of continued education, and/or years of experience does NOT guarantee an excellent CLIENT EXPERIENCE. In the end – that is what we are talking about here… Remember, the consumer tells us time and time again they are seeking THESE traits in a real estate agent: Honesty, Ethics, Integrity and Knowledge… The first THREE are not automatic with either experience or education… neither is the ability to truly CARE for your clients.
If you take a look at the recommendations that consumers post you don’t see the predominant message being about how all the years of education (whether it is a doctor, RE agent, or hair diva) clearly made them a better at their jobs…or caused the issues. Most of them are all about paying attention to the details, listening, connecting and caring for clients. When we focus on THOSE things, I believe “Raising The Bar” will be a natural occurrence in the industry… and not a constant focus.
That is one of the benefits of a program like VerifiedAgent.com. They present neutral, third-party results for the consumer to use in their decision process. Do I think it will be the ONLY thing consumers use in the future? No… but I DO believe it will create a differentiator in the agents favor. I also believe that as the program gains support and recognition, agents who are striving to “Be a VPA” will be more cognizant of their actions. That is a Win-Win for EVERYONE.
If we would all give “a little extra” with every action we take… just imagine what the world would be like!!
Cheers,
Debra
Hi Debra,
I love your fire and passion. And really I think you’re totally on point.
I will ask one simply question though, since you’re on the Advisory Board for VPA, how does the company avoid the same stigma of all the other rating sites? How does it fully differentiate itself from being a BBB for the real estate industry?
Hello Chase, as you know, excellent REALTORS are committed to success, their career, and education by staying abreast of the latest trends. VPA will be one of those gems that will truly be a “Game Changer” in 2012. IMHO. 2012 will be a big year for “Raising the Bar”
“Expect the Best” Mike
Disclaimer: I am a newly minted VPA — the 1st in Ohio, and I jumped on board immediately to become a VPA as the real estate industry, with it’s abysmal approval rating consistently at/near the bottom of all professions/job categories, anything that is well thought out that can help to raise the bar is a good thing. So, I’m huge, raving fan of this concept, and VA’s initial implementation.
Does it guarantee success for a client? No (as previously mentioned), no process could, but that doesn’t invalidate the concept, quite the contrary, I think it’s part of a bottom-up, organic movement that will serve many purposes: awareness amongst agents and the public, scrutiny, some objective benchmarks, and who knows how this could morph moving forward, etc.
Will one system/process/verification system solve this huge issue? No, this issue is far too complex to have one monolithic solution, given the disparity of state requirements, NAR, individual brokerage expectations and hiring decisions on the types of agents they will take, and a host of other issues.
But, isn’t a system meant to provide some concrete measures and seems dovetail with basic common sense a good thing? Seems hard to argue otherwise, in that it is voluntary, if you don’t believe in it, ignore it and move on. However, if you want some independent objective criteria to be measured against, I fail to see how it could be construed as anything other than trying to raise awareness and raising the bar of expectations in the real estate community.
Personally, I have worked extremely hard to develop a stellar reputation among my clients and peers and anything I can do to independently validate this is a good thing.
I think our industry is long overdue for such an important concept and I sure hope our industry, hiring brokers and agents alike have a mindset that helps to transform our industry from it’s current image to something far, far better.
I say hats off to Verified Agent for having the guts to take a stand and actually do something about it instead of just having a thousand independent blog threads on this topic and nothing ever really changes.
I think change usually starts at the bottom and I hope this is the beginning of a movement that ends up influencing educational offerings, individual brokerage hiring and training, the NAR, state licensing officials, the public’s perception of us, and who knows what else.
It all starts with that first step.
In my view becoming a Verified Agent does not take the place of reviews it enhances the social proof of the reviews an agent may have. The VPA seal of approval proves to potential clients that the reviews they see are legitimate. Many of the major sites like Zillow and Trulia have agent reviews but human nature is to be skeptical. Now consumers will have quick and easy way to know that the agent they choose is professional. In the overwhelming sea of real estate information on the internet VPA may just be what home buyers and sellers need…a way to cut through all the noise quickly and make a sound choice about the real estate agent that is right for them.
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